So if I could get a copy of that ruling, that would be beneficial because they have a copy of the Hans Suhr ruling, and that is what they are basing their cases on. And I am saying "That was last year, and there are subsequent rulings that have come up that you may not be aware of'.

Brian:

Cohn Taylor is the best one so far and not because it's Cohn Taylor's but because of what he has done. He has taken Hans Suhr's approach and said "With due respect, I disagree completely, you can't do it that way. Maybe you do look at time and flexibility but you don't have a magic formula for it, you don't have percentages. What you do is use a bunch of rules of thumb, but it is in the eyes of the beholder".

11. Sam Sidsworth - Canfor

You talked a little bit ago about all these flexibility issues that we have negotiated and certainly everybody has a number of issues they have dealt with, some more successfully than others. What is the difficulty, or is there a problem with an issue, if you haven't successfully implemented the work practice change over a period of time. Is there any danger of losing the ability to even pursue the implementation if you don't get on with it?

Brian:

I think you have to be persistent. Management has a few words that the union would attribute to Management about flexibility - patience, reasonableness, and persistence. I think you have to keep coming at them all the time, slowly but surely, working your way to get the maximum flexibility you can achieve. Is there a danger of losing it? Yes, you can't lose the initiative.

Sam:

What I was thinking of was not of pursuing it, but if it went to an arbitration, a grievable item, and they argued that certainly you have negotiated that issue but you haven't implemented it and it has not been the practice even since the negotiation. Then what?

Brian:

When the Fletcher Challenge Collective Agreement came down, the Management in every jurisdiction should have looked at the wording in the trades flexibility and asked themselves one question - Does this give us any more than we have now, or are we in good shape based on this wording already.