6. Mickey Stubley - Howe Sound

In the non-union environment, in mills that have what we call non-restrictive work guidelines, why does it work there? If in the union environment you can't get the non-restrictive work.

Brian:

One, because there has been trade guidelines in the past. Secondly, the union was there to take the aggressive position of negotiation. In other words, in most of the non-union environments the practice of trade guidelines or the practice of trade inflexes wasn't as categorized as it is in the unionized environment. Thirdly, the union will be saying "look you are not taking away something we fought so hard for over the years". It is softer in a non-union environment because what are they going to do when management introduces change. As a group, are they going to walk out?

Mickey:

In our apprenticeship programs, we pay a lot of money for training them to do a lot of skills that they learn at school. Then they get back to the mills and they are restricted from using those skills. Even if we could get that part it would be quite beneficial.

Brian

Yes, and I think that is another way, another avenue that you can talk about. I want to be involved in the negotiations in the pulp industry the next time around because I think that is the kind of thing we should talk about. There is the work force that is coming out that are used to doing it in the apprenticeship program, then get to the work place and the other workers say 'what did you do that for, that is not the way we do things here'. That's why I keep emphasizing that you've got to take the pace of change as it is given to you. You have to come up with these innovative ideas about the apprenticeship program, pass them back upstairs. Why aren't they talking to Victoria or the industry about a master mechanic again. You know the old saying, "If don't ask the question, you can't get an answer". How groups succeed in lobby's is to repeat their themes over and over again eventually they get what they want. Well if we need some flexibility in that regard, why aren't we in Victoria? We don't have a receptive government? I think what they want is this province to be productive. I have had discussions with some of these NDP Ministers and they don't like inefficient work operations. That is what we are talking about in some of these places. Even the unions recognize it. That is why they buy into trade flex and over time they will get adjusted to that and some of those other practices will change as well.