Then what happens is, the younger guys see the opportunities and the layoffs come,and he thinks - if I've got 3 tickets and I'm able to work in 3 trades that could work out well. Younger people will adjust on the basis that they have got much more survival instincts than we have: and in addition to that: they are the ones that are looking now and seeing all the people on the street looking for jobs. If all the people that you are dealing with on a regular basis are in their fifties: they usually have missed the beat except for strike times.

4. Ralph Franke Fletcher Challenge: Mackenzie

But if I understood what you said to Tom about the apprenticeships will anybody have 3 tickets or will they just have one? They tried that apprenticeship about 5 years ago in the province of BC, I think they had a 1/2 dozen people that they took in, and I don't remember exactly how it went, but they tried that and it didn't work.

Brian:

I don't think the time is right now, but as I said, maybe 5 years from now when people see what is going on.

5. Rod Duncan - Northwood Pulp

Do you think paying money for trade flex is going to make it move any faster or is it just going to take time? I know there has been talk about paying an extra $2/hour to get full ill flex. Is that going to really bias people?

Brian:

No, I don't think so. What we are dealing with now is the backlash of some of the old timers fighting against change. But I wouldn't recommend anyone push it, take the time to bring it in slowly, make sure it is brought in with no surprises. Make sure the pace has a nice arc to it. In addition to that let the workers retire with dignity. Put some money into pension plans so it's much more attractive to them. And not just pension plans, what's wrong with a buyout. If you gave me $30,000 cash so that I could put it into an RRSP to enhance my pension that would be pretty attractive too. You say. why would you give him a pension or buyout. Why should we reward some of those unionized people who have been around for 25 or 30 years. They've lost that drive They are begrudgingly there. They would like to go off and do something else.